Hi all.

These 2 images show, more or less, the shape the interior is in, in my Grumman.

I know a few of you have done fairly extensive restorations and I was hoping to get some input.

As you can see the roof is not supported except by the walls forward of the bathroom.

In fact the bathroom wall is just attached to wood strips screwed to the side of the fiberglassed wood (?) ribs that run across the roof. These panels or walls do not appear to support the roof at all.

So the big question is....

Are the walls load bearing or do I need to add some support? The roof is clearly very very heavy.

I am eventually trying to make the layout as open plan as possible.

The other thing is it would appear that the channels at the wall bottom where it meets the floor was designed to take a 2 by and be used to frame the wall up.

The previous owner told me he removed no framing and that's just how it was made. Yikes!

Under the window you see there were two vertical pieces of wood joining the two horizontal ones that I replaced due to rot BUT there was no wood that reached either the floor of the ceiling.

I am planning on framing these walls but the big question is whether the roof needs support or if the walls are designed as is to do that?

Thanks in advance for the help!!

PS the window in the 2nd picture is covered and has a small fridge under it and a blue tote lid.

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Hi Kirk,

We've been really lucky here in West Central Florida.

Its 64 degrees now at 12:44 in the afternoon. We had a few days recently in the 80s.

Before  that it was 2 months of 40s and 50s and maybe the occasional low 60s which is really cold to us. lol

Yeah the rest of the country is in real trouble with the cold and that's no joke.

Id love to see some pictures of the your Grumman when it thaws out up your way. Maybe the Kragar too for prosterity!

So here is the dreaded stamp!

I didn't get a chance to go back out and take more pictures yesterday because of torrential rain. I need to look at the carb again and see if its on an adapter plate. That will make things clearer.

One thing I read looking around was that the 392 does 10 mpg period just like you said unless going super slow. Of course that only place with real info is binderplanet and that's mostly Scout owners. In a scout it will also only do 10 mpg.

People with the 304 are seeing 14-16mpg ( again in a scout ) So who knows maybe the engine swap was a good thing!

Cheers!

I just found a picture of the carb ...so here it is.

Hi Paul, 

       I tried to write back last night, but this computer did something stupid and locked up. I hate computers! 

    Anyway, I'm thinking that sure is a lot of carb for a 304, I wonder what jets are in it?  I'm betting she runs pretty rich. 

     We're having a heat wave here this morning! It's a whopping 4 degrees above zero! Yesterday was 14 below. So, it should almost feel warm out there today! 

    Where are you in West Central Fla.? I have some dear friends who live in Alva, He keeps asking me to come down for a visit, But I haven't been able to yet!

     It looks like your previous owner either told you a story, or maybe didn't know that engine had been swapped, that is definitely a 304, I am pretty sure the E after the number means Emissions. Are there plugs in the exhaust ports in the head where the manifolds mount? That is another indicator of an emissions engine. These might be better than the older 304s as far as power and torque output, I'm not sure. The main thing is that it runs and gats you down the road in some fashion! And it just may get you better mileage. 

     A few years ago, I was driving a '73 3/4 ton pickup with a 345 engine, That was when they came out with E-85 Ethanol fuel, one station here had a special promo day where they were selling E-85 for $.85 a gallon, So I tried about a half a tank, just to see what it would do. as soon as that stuff hit the carb, that old truck turned into a sports car! The power it had felt like it doubled. My gas mileage went from 9 miles a gallon up to 18-19! It was fantastic, the only problem I ever noticed was when it was really hot out, I had to pull the choke about halfway when I would stand on the gas to accelerate! Normal acceleration was fine, it was just at full throttle that she would lean out. I am sold on Ethanol. Now we have stations that sell an E-30 blend. I've been using that in all my stuff with no problems. I even use it in my '96 Ford with no problems and some improvement in MPG. people that are scared of Ethanol for reasons of corrosion and all the excuses they use are really confusing it with Methanol. That stuff will cause corrosion and all the problems people try to blame on Ethanol! . I just tell them, if Ethanol is really so bad, why do so many people love to drink so much of it? E-85 is only corn liquor blended with gasoline!

       Well, you have a wonderful day and take care, Talk to you soon, Kirk

Kirk,

Just a quick image of the carb plate. When I get if off Ill shed some more light on it!

Gotta Go. Will catch up tomorrow!

Paul

Hey Kirk
I'm in St.Petersburg. Tampa Bay area.
So your friend is a little south of me.
I hope its heating up over your way. It's 73 degrees here at 10:30 pm. So that's pretty nice!
The engine concern is on the back burner while I work on the interior.
So back to the subject of the post!
I just got back in the house from working on her. I remade the base of the bench/ bunk that had been completely removed on the drivers side.
Framed in a new fridge too. As it gets built up it's getting stronger.
I put in the entrance wall again temporarily.
I plan on brightening it up by painting it white inside. Unfortunately the entrance wall and bunk base on that side are laminated dark wood plastic veneer so I cant paint them. I guess I'll be remaking them out of new ply eventually but the price of cabinet grade ply is crazy right now.
When I put up the wall supports for the fridge at the end of the drivers side bunk I realised the spot I really need to anchor to the aluminum framing at the roof line is right where the 110v supply drops thru so a little rethinking after I sleep on it.
Just doing those 2 small things are really starting to make it come together.
Getting excited about getting more done.
I'm tying into the aluminum uprights wherever I can.
Once the bunk is in I'll do the wheel arch cover and make a support for a new water tank on top of it. Still need to decide what size I'm going to use.
Then I'll build the kitchen less a stove. I tore the propane out so I guess I'll cook outside on a portable. Funny thing is I cant work out how that forward sink waste would have been plumbed out. There is no hole in the floor ( or plumbing to the tank ) there and the nearest one is all the way back just forward of the bathroom parition.
Does the drain pipe for the kitchen sink run all the way back there going behind fridge and past the freshwater tank?
I know originally the floor was raised there where the kitchen sink will be.
Was there a holding tank for the sink that you dragged out and dumped?
Anyways I'll post a pic of the progress tomorrow. It's not much but its something!

Like I said its a start!

Hi Paul,                                                                                                                                    Looks like you're coming along well with the project! If I remember right my sink drain went behind the fridge and water tank to a hole in the floor somewhere back there. Mine does not have a Gray water holding tank, so it just ran on the ground. I'll need to add a tank and plumbing to be legal now days!   There was a big kind of flat water tank in mine originally, when it decided to leak I couldn't find anything close to those dimensions, so  I used a 30 gallon tank  I had taken out of another RV that  I junked. 

    I'll be saving everything I  can from the old Kragar, it has 2 fresh water tanks, and  I'm pretty sure there are 2 waste tanks under it. Hopefully some of that will be useable. I know there are 2 gas tanks that are both full of old nasty rotten gas that has been in there since 1981, so that will be fun to get rid of! The propane tank is full too, but that lasts forever, so, it's useable! I haven't had the Grumman on the road since 2016, I need to replace the main gas tank. There is a lot of rust and crap in there. I've been running on a 12 gallon boat tank that I put on the floor by the door. I don't dare run my furnace with the gas tank that close!

   I don't suppose heat is a big thing in Fla. But here it's imperative! Even though the furnace can hardly keep up when it's this cold. Then in the Summer the roof air struggles to keep things comfortable. I have considered adding another AC to the vent over the bunks. I think my generator can handle 2 units.

      I'm hoping it warms up enough in the next few days for me to get out there with my skid loader and dig my way over to my old garage, I have wood heat in there, so I can get it comfortable. I have lots of projects to finish over there too. I like old engines and have a collection to keep me busy! Lots of guys like the single cylinder hit and miss engines, but I like small 2 and 4 cylinder ones. I have a Waukesha that was the axillary engine in a Pershing tank. It only drives a generator to charge the batteries and help start the big engine. I have a small Hercules that is on an old military generator, a 2 cylinder LeRoi, a bunch of 2 cyl. Wisconsins a pair of Universal 4 cylinders, and a few others! I don't have any trouble finding things to do! LOL. Between all that and being an airplane nut, there's always something!

       Well, have a great day and take care. Talk to you soon.      Kirk

      Looks like you're coming along well with the project. If I remember right the sink drain did run behind the fridge and water tank to a hole somewhere back there. Mine does not have a Gray water tank, and Ik

Kirk,

Ha! You really do have a lot of projects! I'm down to the RV and a Grumman boat I'm working on. I've rebuilt a motorcycle 4 stroke engine and a bunch of 2 bangers. Mostly scooters and outboards. Nothing big. Though once when I was a kid I rebuilt a Ford 1600cc cross-flow engine.

Sounds like you like working on the cool stuff!

Save as much of that stuff from the Kragar as you can. Is the windshield good? I'm sure someone will eventually want one. The instrument cluster too.

I'm going to drop the fuel tank on the Grumman eventually. The last guy told me he had drained it so I put 10 gallons of fresh in and the stink was awful. Needs draining and cleaning out. Also new line to the generator. Might also change that out with an Onan Marquis 5000 I got a year or two back for the last RV. It never got used by me but looks to be in better shape than the antique in there now.

I need to look at my plumbing for the black tank - yep - the only one. If I remember right,the wash basin and the shower drained into it. Cant remember seeing a hook up for the front sink but maybe that drains into there too?

Seems odd that it would run all the way from pretty much behind the drivers seat to the bathroom if it just dumped out. And if it did just dump out I'll just cut a hole right under it. Ha Ha.

Well good luck clearing a path through the snow. Its getting down in the 40s here tonight. Brrr. LOL

Last time it did that I wish I'd kept the furnace in it and re plumbed with a new tank but its out now. All electric. No gas.My AC is a Coleman Mach 15. Bought it from a friend pretty cheap but it looks like brand new. I bought the heat strip for it. Wont do much but it's better than nothing. The literature says it will help

"take the chill off"

Here to warmer days!

Cheers.

Hi Paul,

      Good Morning, Well, I guess it's -10 here this morning, so. I'll be in my basement working on the model Airplane I'm finally getting around to building. It's a WW1 SE5 bi-plane. I already have one that I built back in 2007, but I found this kit on Craigslist a few years ago for $10.00! I couldn't pass that up, list price is almost $200.00 The guy had bought it then must have decided it was too much work for him. So, this will keep me occupied for the rest of Winter! I got into RC flying about 1999, and kind of have been broke ever since, LOL! 

     Last Fall I acquired a real airplane, a 1946 Stinson, 108, that needs restoration. The big thing is that there is no engine. I had originally thought it would make a cool lawn ornament, but this one is too nice to just sit out in the weather, it deserves to fly again!

  I have an old 1965 Johnson 17' Deluxe boat that I think is almost a one of a kind these days, it's a tri hull, but the big hulls are on the outside, sort of a Catamaran style. A friend was going to junk it, so, I had to rescue it!

   That's pretty much my bucket list! I sometimes think my damned bucket is way too big! I'm trying to figure out how to live another hundred years or so to get this stuff done!

     OK, back to the RV! On mine the gas tank and propane tanks are directly under the sink, so a drain there is out of the question. My gas tank is 65 gallons, so, it takes almost all the space from the front wheel to the propane tank, which is between the rear wheel and the gas tank. So all that space is busy holding fuel! I really don't understand why they designed this thing with everything on the drivers side. Between gas, propane and the fresh water tank that is a lot of weight on that side, kind of of-balances things! The black water tank is between the frame all the way to the back, but there's not much else there except for brake boosters and driveline. I guess it would be hard to make anything else fit in there!   I have a friend who had an old Mallard  RV on a Ford E-350 chassis, someone had added a spare fresh water tank on the roof! I think that was at least a 50 gallon tank!  I bet that was fun to handle when that got to sloshing around up there!

     You have a great day and take care. Talk to you soon, Kirk

Kirk

Well it looks like things are warming up! I just checked the weather for

Stockton ( according to your profile info ) and it says you'll hit 35 today and a balmy 43 degrees on Sunday!

I stayed with a friend in Galena , which I guess is 35 mins away from you, about 10 years back. It was wintertime and cold as hell. I remember getting out of the car at a gas station and my eyelids almost froze open. Ha. Yep that's too cold. Also has my first and last skiing lesson on Old Main at Chestnut Mountain.Broke my thumb on my first fall then spent the rest of the day pretty much facing uphill on my back with the skis stuck in the snow pointing upwards!!

It was fun though and my friend thought it was all hilarious. She of course was tearing down the slopes like a pro.

Anyways...

I looked up the plane and the boat you mentioned. The plane reminds me of something you'd see in Alaska or maybe used by a bush pilot. Very cool. Clearly I know nothing about planes but I like the look of it.

Now the boat. That's interesting. Looks like a modified Cathedral Hull.

Not unlike my skiff except on mine it rides on the center hull at speed and uses the two outers for stability. Yours is reversed with the outers being lower. Interesting.

My other boat that just needs floors and finishing is a Grumman 5.0 Meter center console with a Johnson 88. I should really just replace the floor and get it on the water. Ive had it 2 years already.

Ok. So the RV.

I was planning on getting some more interior work done but instead set about fixing the leak on the center roof vent I'd put in. I had installed it and taped the edges with eternabond tape. Noticed in the last storm that it was leaking. Its designed with a raised section for the hinge with recessed screws. Anyway..long story short..I cut back the eternabond around the raised hinge and gave it a good going over with Dicor. Hopefully that'll fix the leak.

After that I decided to attach the TV/ FM antenna on the roof as It was picking up no stations inside. It's one of those that's fixed and looks like a flying saucer. It has a 12v powered wall plate that has 3 TV outputs a cable in out and an FM connection.

For some reason the plate powers from a battery but not from the 12v supply in the coach. Same wiring powers anything else with a pos and neg wire like lights and fans, so that's a bit of a mystery.

End result was still zero TV stations but I am in my yard surrounded by oak trees and my workshop. Tried swapping out coax then powered coax boosters. Still nothing. Ending up wasting several hours on that. By the time I gave up it was dark so instead I raked oak leaves ready for trash pickup today.

Oh and I almost forgot. I put the mirror frames and mirrors on her too.

A bit early as shes not road ready and they will probably be in my way when I'm sealing the roof but I just wanted to see how they would look. The originals were gone so I'm pretty happy that I could find something that fit.

Hopefully Ill get back to work on her tonight or tomorrow.

Hi Paul, 

      Yeah, it's a little warmer here today, but the wind is blowing like crazy, so, it feels colder than it did yesterday. I have huge icicles falling off my roof today, these things built up over the last few days because I have an ice melting cable on the roof to try to avoid ice dams.  I'm in an old mobile home that doesn't have much slope, so, ice dams are a constant problem in the Winter!  So, today, I'm still in  the basement working on a model airplane in front of the heater!  Supposed to be warmer tomorrow, so, I'll get the skid steer out and get pushy with some snow banks! 

     I really like the looks of that old Johnson boat I have, The glass windshield was the thing that caught my eye at first. you don't see many small boats with real glass! And that nice chrome frame around it reminds me of an old convertible car!  I need to get the engine back in it and take it down the Mississippi just one time!  I think I'll be selling the Stinson. I had to give up my job due to some medical stuff, so, I am hoping to be able to survive on Social Security alone. I have too many zeros on my work record, so I don't get much. It used to pay the bills and the job got groceries and gas. I can save some on gas now, but I still like food! So, things will be a little tight, but, I've been there before!

     I have a Radio Shack antenna on mine. It's almost 18 inches in diameter and used to pull in stations that I had never heard of before. Some of them over 100 miles away. It uses a 12 plug in transformer, I hope it still works! I had a little 9 inch TV with a built in VCR in there, but since they switched to digital I would need a converter. But the power supply in the TV crapped out so it went in the dumpster!  There's probably a simple reason it's not powering up, I had a thing with mine once where I had 12 Volts when plugged in, but the converter wouldn't switch back to battery when I unplugged, Turned out that the points in the converter were corroded a little , a few passes with some sandpaper and it works again.

     I had to laugh about your account of the skiing episode. That's about how it would go for me too! I've lived out here since 1997 and never have been to Chestnut Mountain! My ex-room mate used to work there for a while but it was a bad Winter and a rough commute every day, so, she quit! What the hell Kirk will feed me! LOL that didn't last long. It's pretty neat that you kind of know your way around this area!   Lots of people don't have a clue about Galena!

     What are you using for mirror brackets? there are some rusty old loop style brackets on mine that I should replace. The truck mirrors that I could find were way too long and would have stuck out half a mile LOL.

     Well, back to my airplane build, have a good one! Catch you later. v  Kirk

 

Kirk,

Sorry to hear you are having medical issues. It sucks getting older for sure.

The mirror arms I bought from amazon.

Wide Mount Loop Arm Assembly Stainless Steel West Coast Mirrors w/Convex

They were $130 but that included the mirrors so I figured $65 a side isn't so bad. If you need just the arms it will be less of course.

They seem ok quality. I didn't have the originals so I dont know if they stick out too far. I have them pretty close to the window. The mirrors are out about 6 or 8 inches from the glass I guess. I've no idea if that's even right but I can see just fine out of both of them.

Yes Galena is a very cool town. I liked it a lot. Great memories of a week long trip.
Drove there from Milwaukee in the snow in my friends beat up old Toyota that would have been scary even if it wasn't snowing with 6ft drifts. Bad brakes, wheel bearings and loose steering.Im glad she was driving. Funny thing is back then my car was only slightly safer.
LOL.

One quick question before I turn in for the night so I can get some RV stuff done tomorrow and be fairly awake.

On the Johnson are they intakes on the front of the hull or just made to look that way? I get why you fell for it. It has "the look".

Cheers!

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