Question about propane...or rather, propane accessories...

[Dawn Michelle]

Hi all - 

Yes, I'm a King of the Hill fan!  I'm going to post here directly a picture of my propane tank, and regulator - I'm not even sure there's enough room to squeeze in a bypass kit, but in the interim I want to see if I'm even thinking about this correctly.

What I want out of the bypass is to tie in a Mr Heater (the smaller one you can't plumb in to the low pressure lines).

I found this, but it seems to be something for hooking up to an external propane tank (which would be nice to have ADDITIONALLY, but first priority is to use the onboard for the Mr. Heater). 

Thoughts?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N657EZL/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I3NQR7TE...

Then this was going to be the kit for the Mr. Heater to string it to the bypass:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001CFWF5U/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I2NCL5IK...

My only issue with external is I have nowhere to really carry a tank.  The bay isn't tall enough, The shower is already dedicated to the catbox and the laundry basket while in motion (and I don't really like the idea of keeping it inside) which leaves mounting somehow on the back tool box and wouldn't know where to begin for that - is it even legal?  Of course I could just get tanks when and where I needed them - put down deposit, take a quick trip to where I'm setting up and leave it out until ready to leave area and then return to get my deposit back.  I've heard there are smaller pancake ones but they don't seem to be common, easy to find.  

I promise a blog post soon - doing a lot of little details right now and goes back for final mechanic work Monday; then when back I'll be on the home stretch!

[Dawn Michelle]

All sounds good - I'd like to use my Mr. Heater but it's the small one that is meant to run on high pressure, not low pressure.  I thought about getting the bigger one now (it's cheaper) but it's too big.  The wave is more expensive and puts out less but I can wall mount it or drag it up to the kitchen counter as long as I plan enough hose so it's out of the way.  I only have walking room and two animals so that's a limitation.  If I had run from the extend a stay and worked with the high pressure (eliminated that option) I could have run it up under the dinette and kept the unit on the table (which is large and would have been the perfect place to face the space).  Now I'd have to run a hose across the floor ...

Okay, thinking.  If I get a long enough hose, while not fun to run, I could run it along with the plumbing back around the bathroom - but then it would be right in front of the fuse box before I could bring it under the dinette and by the converter and battery bank I'm planning.  That doesn't sound good either does it?

[John "T" Nordhoff]

  1)  You say "

“I'd like to use my Mr. Heater but it's the small one that is meant to run on high pressure, not low pressure”

 DO NOT quote me on this I may be wrong as rain ask Mr Heater. BUT I think the "high pressure" units simply have their own pressure regulator built in and all they do is reduce high down to low pressure and they still function on LOW pressure ONLY.......  THEREFORE I "think" you can still run low pressure to them and their built in regulator will allow it to stay at low pressure DUH  so I "think" it will still work if you run low pressure to it BUT NO WARRANTY

 

2) "but then it would be right in front of the fuse box before I could bring it under the dinette and by the converter and battery bank I'm planning.  That doesn't sound good either does it?"

 NO I don't like the idea of the gas line in that location either. Other places don't scare me provided you use stainless steel braid covered gas hose and have the manual shut off near where it enters the RV interior living space

 ASK OTHERS INCLUDING MR HEATER but I think it will still work if you run already regulated low pressure to it ???????? 

 John T PS I told you I wasn't a plumber lol

[Dawn Michelle]

Interesting - I have read one guy who swears he plumbed his little Mr. Heater into the low pressure line and it worked but everyone argued and said he must not know what he was talking about.  

You know what?  If you don't see any danger this would be an interesting experiment if I can find the right adapter - before I buy the wave just do the line first.  If it doesn't work then I'm just out the price of the adapter.

So I'm looking for an adapter that would replace the bottle....like this?

https://www.amazon.com/Mr-Heater-Throwaway-Cylinder-Fitting/dp/B000...

They have female ends as as well which are cheaper, depends on how my line ends up. Guess I need to start sketching that out and getting an understanding of my parts.

[John "T" Nordhoff]

   That's the type of small throwaway cylinder adapter I used EXCEPT mine had 1/4 inch Female NPT thread into which my 3/8 braided SS hose 1/4 Male NPT threaded end hose fit. The other end of my braided hose (with another 1/4 male NPT) fit into a 1/4 x 1/2  reducing bushing that screwed into my 1/2 NPT female gas shut off valve then another hose to where my 3/8 T was located PIECE OF CAKE

NPT = National Pipe Thread

 I'm "almost" sure you can still run already low pressure into that throw away adapter and the Mr Heater works as its built in regulator doesn't reduce already low pressure all over aqain, no need to, and besides I prefer LOW pressure inside the RV anyway........  

PS I wish others could/would confirm that Mr Heater still works on already low pressure ???????

 John T

[Dawn Michelle]

Just a quick note - definitely can't tee off a connection - will have to cut line, but fortunately there is one that runs right in front of the water tank across the front of the kitchen cabinet - so it's quite accessible.  Shoving this project down the list slightly as I wrestle with plumbing.  Installed faucet and drains today in the kitchen - all seemed okay (will test drains tomorrow) but spent three hours attaching and re-attaching a swivel nut/check valve on a pull out faucet and CAN NOT keep it from leaking.  Of course this is the one faucet that I think will work for my situation - and had to go far afield to get it. LOL.  Good thing the universe is determined that I can't have any projects go easy - otherwise I might get a big head and couldn't fit under the sink to do the work...!!!

[Lakota Wolf]

You must of had Murphy sittin with ya on your sink project,, I usually send him out Snipe hunting when he gets to be irritating.   I forgot to mention,,, that Hank Hill is pretty good at his Propane and propane accs, But hes way down here in Arlington., He wasnt in this weekend,, something about Bobby playing softball or something...  Anywho,, on a serious note,, nothing should actually work the very first time,, That would take all the fun out of it,, and if ya do it a couple times, you become a master... Thanks for the update,,,Hope things stay fairly smooth with the updates and repairs and fixes,,,, just remember to send Murphy out to chase Snipe...

[Dawn Michelle]

I KNOW!  Well, for that leak, it turns out the swivel nut/check valve was missing a washer. ACE guy found me a good o-ring fit and solved that.  But then one of the replaced drains is leaking.  Both the install into the sink and the slipnut to the tail.  So I took it all apart, re-siliconed the sink (read that was better than putty) and put it all back together, so will see if I solved at least one of the issues.  The slipnut issue I believe I inherited - that was all gross from previous leaks.  Cleaned, cleaned gasket but not confident I didn't anything.  Might have to replace that elbow.  But shouldn't be end of the world.  Just as all my projects, the saga continues.

It did give me a chance to spend some time in the propane and propane accessories aisle and talk to Hank  - starting to scope out what fittings/tools I need and how I'm going to run the gas line.  

You know, if women installed plumbing, access would be much bigger...!!

[Dawn Michelle]

John - if you are still following - I got most of my supplies for the propane project going to attempt this weekend but still struggling trying to sort out my heater to hose adapter...you wrote:

"adapter to mate with the small 1 inch LP Gas bottle fitting"  and whether trying that with the Mr Heater I have, or with the wave - I'm a bit stumped exactly what I am looking at and just got funny looks from the ACE guys :-)

Here's what I have:

1 - verified my hose I'm going to tee off of is 3/8

2 - flare style 3/8 tee

3 - 2 of the flare fittings

4 - flaring tool

5 - yellow gas tape

6 - adapter from 3/8 to 1/2

7 - 1/2 in manual close valve

8 - 3/8 in yellow flexi propane hose - like this - http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=28975266 coming in - so it has 1/2 inch fittings.

Now I'm lost - what am Iooking for to attach the hose to the mr. heater into where the propane bottle would fit, or sans that, I go with the catalytic wave https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BUV1RK/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I3B7BX8E...   - I'm seeing for the latter, a 3/8 to 3/8 elbow - seems then I'd still need another adapter for the hose...https://www.amazon.com/Camco-57633-Connector-Olympian-Heaters/dp/B0...

?

[John "T" Nordhoff]

  Wow, I know how to do this and did it and will try to explain how LOL but this gets soooooooooo complicated over the net trying to type/describe how, especially when I'm not smart enough to post pictures BUT HERE COMES MY BEST. NOTE the reason a hardware store dude gave you funny looks is because they are not at all familiar with hooking up a Mr heater or other type RV specific appliances. If you had the small gas bottle adapter with you that has 1/4 NPT male or female ends, they would be able to mate it up with that flex hose you pictured. All that takes is a 1/2 x 1/4 reducing coupling (I prefer brass) or a 1/2 x 1/4 reducing bushing subject to what adapter and hose end you use   

Mr Heater

 If you use the Mr Heater like I did that uses the small throw away 1 # LP Gas bottles you need to adapt from your flexible hose to a fitting that screws into where the small bottle would. Here's the one I used, you can get them to fit up to a 1/4 male NPT or a 1/4 female NPT. Mine was a 1/4 NPT female.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mr-Heater-1-20-Male-Throwaway-Cylinder-thre...

\

That item takes 1/4 NPT (male or female) incoming gas and mates it to where the small gas bottle would fit inside a Mr Heater

Next you have to adapt whichever flex hose end you use (it has a 1/2 male and a 1/2 female) to whichever Mr Heater (see my e bay item above) adapter you use, male or female, that requires a 1/2 by 1/2 reducing bushing or a 1/2 x 1/4 reducing coupling depending on which way you go

STOP THE PRESSES

WITH RESPECT TO THE ABOVE COUPLE PARAGRAPHS It appears the 1/2 male end of your flex hose goes to your gas valve, so its the 1/2 female end of the flex hose you need to mate to the throw away cylinder adapter IF THATS THE CASE you need a 1/2 x 1/4 reducing bushing  and then a 1/4 NPT brass close nipple  ORRRRRRRRRRRR PROBABLY MUCH BETTER  you can buy the throw away adapter with a male 1/4 fitting that way all you need is a brass 1/2 x 1/4 reducing coupling  so one end of the flex hose goes to it and the other end of the reducing coupling goes to the throw away adapter  IE disregard the e bay item above, use this one instead to go from your flex hose to where a gas cylinder would screw into a Mr Heater

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mr-Heater-F273755-1-4-Inch-Male-Pipe-1-x20-...

Ace hardware will NOT have the thro away cylinder adapter BUT THEY WILL HAVE A BRASS 1/2 X 1/4 REDUCING COUPLING I BET that's what you need, it accepts the male end of your flex hose and the 1/4 male end of the adapter

 WAVE HEATER

From the picture it looks like all it takes is the flex hose and you don't need any cylinder adapter.

3000 BTU isn't much heat !!!!!!!!!!!! The Mr Heaters can go up to 12,000 BTU I think their smaller u it is like 6000 BTU. That wave isn't much of a heater

 

 JUST TOOOOOOOOOO COMPLICATED OVER THE NET WITHOUT PICTURES, IM SORRY

 If you use a Mr Heater THE FIRST THING YOU NEED IS THE ADAPTER I GOT OFF E BAY AND with that in hand Ace  could easily adapt the gas hose to it. Again If its as I think, its the second adapter you need, the one with a 1/4 MALE thread end

 Best I can do for you

 John T

[Dawn Michelle]

John - this is PERFECT.  You are giving me names for the adapters as well as pictures.  You are right to make me look at the heater again - the mr heater i have is 4000-9000 btu so I better consider the 6000.  It's a small space (8x8 - minus a little) plus loft.  Anything bigger there is nowhere it will fit - lol.

[Terry H]

Dawn, just curious, but have you considered the additional condensation you WILL experience with any unvented open flame propane appliance used inside?  Side effects can possibly reach the point of being devastating. Often damage will initially show up where it is not readily evident - ie inside upper sidewall to ceiling connection inside your upper cupboards. It will carry on further from there.

Best temporary solution is to leave the cupboard doors open to provide air circulation. In a high condensation situation circulation will be your friend.

If you are familiar with larger boats you will know that locker(cupboard) door are generally louvered to provide air circulation.

There are less expensive alternatives should you decide to go with the open flame heater.

A relatively easy one is to install one of those desktop computer wire pass throughs to the top of each door.

Additionally is the CO that is created from burning propane.

Factory installed propane water heaters, furnaces and fridges are all, by code,vented. Main reason is to prevent CO accumulation inside. Additional benefit is somewhat reduced condensation.

Stove top and oven rely on cold air returns to eliminate CO build up. They may be enough for safety and required Oxygen to provide for an open flame interior propane fired heater.

The test to see if they are could have dire consequences.

Something to consider.

[Dawn Michelle]

Good considerations - and no hadn't thought about that.  

So maybe my rethinking the catalytic, and instead spending the money to boost my recharging abilities and battery bank is actually a better way to go...(see comment I just posted).  Then I can use my onboard furnace, recharge daily, keep the mr heater and a few 1 lbs as emergency backup only (properly opening windows) and otherwise be sure I insulate as well as I can...

Worse comes to worse I go stay where there are hookups.  Basically I'm in Denver thru end of December (will get snow but worst of the cold is usually (haha) after Christmas) then south to Arizona.